Post crash analysis - March 28th Florida Track Days Discuss Post crash analysis - March 28th in the Motorcycles on the Road forums; Hello fellow riders. This is my first post on this board and regrettably it’s about a crash I had at the track day last Sunday. I am a former south ...

[Mike Bee]

Hello fellow riders. This is my first post on this board and regrettably it’s about a crash I had at the track day last Sunday.

I am a former south Florida roadracer. I stopped racing in 2002 but I did one track day in September 2008. So I have not been on a track in about a year and a half. I registered advanced but I ran intermediate in the morning to make sure I truly was as “advanced” as I thought I should be.

The last intermediate session before lunch I was running pretty fast for the group and was for sure going to move on to advanced. Just before the session was due to end I came up on a group of riders going up the hill into turn 3. I set up on the outside to pass one rider when he inexplicably checked up and moved from mid track towards the outside. I thought for sure he was going to stop his lateral movement and proceed around the corner like the rest of the riders in front of him. Well he didn’t, he kept drifting out until we both ended up trying to occupy the same point in the universe and we bumped. The impact knocked me into the grass where I lost traction and crashed into the tires.

Since then I have run though the incident in my mind 100 times. Ultimately I concluded that it was my fault since I was the passing rider and it was up to me to make sure the pass occurred safely, but I cannot figure out why the guy checked up and drifted out like he did. Was it just “his line” that he prefers; did he see something ahead and needed to take avoiding action? I dunno?!?

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt because as you can see in the picture., he is on a race bike and he had been running pretty fast until that corner, so he seems to be an experienced rider.

I invite you all to have a look at the video and let me know what you think.

[ticktock4792]

first off...sucks you crashed, no one can deny that...

to me it looks like he was taking like you said "his" line....not the one i would of took but then again you already commented on it, but it is the passing members responsibility to pass safely...so its kind of a crappy situation where one parties taking his line and the other didnt think he was going to do it and someone goes down...

sucks it happened....you seem to be fine if your typing about it but hope the bikes ok

[1k_Anubis]

I've never raced at the track before, but in the bike class, they taught us to start wide and go into the corner while opening the throttle...only thing I can think of is: he was going to take the turn wide and get some g's going into the turn? Not sure what the proceding turn is, but....eh this is my thought.
Plus 1 on being ok though

[Mike1000rr]

I think he was just taking his line and went a little wide. Also probably could have taken him inside if you slowed up somewhat or didn't go wide yourself and dove in. But glad you are okay atleast!

[johng]

He doesn't understand that the line is relative to speed, and you made an assumption.

[Busacaptain]

Looks like to me that was his disired line.. he also took that line in the previous corner.. Wide in.. Hope your ok..

[Chef636]

It looks like you were doing well until that specific corner, could you have gotten on the brakes a little sooner? Sure, but ultimately the move you made was high risk and sometimes shit happens..ya know?, I don't ride the track but you both were at the same place same time, and I would imagine on the track that shit doesn't fly. Glad you're okay and here to talk about it bud. Keep it going:)

[Mike Bee]

Originally Posted by johng

He doesn't understand that the line is relative to speed, and you made an assumption.

For that corner you can either take a tight line to get you inside of the concrete strip at the apex or you can take the wide line that would take you outside of the strip. Using the wide line I had passed several riders on the outside earlier who were on the normal tight line. No drama. This rider seemed to set up to take the tight line so I committed to pass on the outside. Then he seemed to change trajectory in the middle of the corner which caught me out.

Anyway you said it, I assumed he would leave some room and he didn't. My bad.

Mike...

[johng]

Originally Posted by Mike Bee

For that corner you can either take a tight line to get you inside of the concrete strip at the apex or you can take the wide line that would take you outside of the strip. Using the wide line I had passed several riders on the outside earlier who were on the normal tight line. No drama. This rider seemed to set up to take the tight line so I committed to pass on the outside. Then he seemed to change trajectory in the middle of the corner which caught me out.

Anyway you said it, I assumed he would leave some room and he didn't. My bad.

Mike...

At the speed he was running, I would have never expected him to move to the outside either, but would have left room for error because I don't know him. What I meant by speed relative to line is that he was going show enough that he could have ran straight to the corner, held the inside all the way to the rumble strips and setup the next turn. Some riders seem to think they need to get as far out as they can to turn in. If your momentum doesn't take you to the edge of the track, you are wasting time by driving out there. Unless you are setting up a turn with a long straight afterwards.

[Tungue]

When I first started riding at Homestead, I would set up turn 3 very wide. From talking with several folks over the past year of doing track days there, there are several lines thru turn 3. These days I take turn 3 a whole lot shallower compared to when I first started on that track.

My interpretation of the video is that the rider in front of you was just running the his\her line. He\she may have "checked up" because they were could very well have been not been as comfortable taking the corner as fast as you.

It's not the optimal race line because it does leave the door open to be passed. Although it was race bike, it doesn't necessarily mean he\she is a racer. They may have just bought the bike to use as a track bike. In that rider's mind, they're probably going with the fundamentals of entering\exiting wide for a corner.

Although, yes if someone had to put the blame on anyone, then the fault would be on you. But it's not like you did anything wrong. You were trying to set the rider up for a pass. You took a GUESS as to what you thought the rider was going to do, based on your own experience\knowledge of the corner. Unfortunately, you wrecked. It's just one of those things that happens.

You could have just waited to pass between turn 4 and 6. Maybe you could have passed between turn 3 and 4. There are other options. That's life for ya.

I wouldn't say you need to spend much more time second guessing yourself or trying to figure out what went wrong or trying to figure out what the other rider was doing or etc, etc, etc.