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Old 10-20-2014, 06:16 PM   #11
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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Originally Posted by zzwierzyna View Post
The only thing I'd like to confirm is: two or more unarmed attackers. In my CCW class I was told if 2 or more people are attacking, you can shoot one.

Obviously if they have weapons both.

Is that 100% factual? I did a little research one night and didnt find much. Never the less if im outnumbered it only makes sense that lethal force is justified, else they expect you to get gang raped?

I just dont want to pass on the wrong information, as I feel I went into the CCW class with more knowledge than I left with :p
The law goes not by the number of attackers or weapons.

The victim has to truly fear about his / her or somebody else's life or bodily harm in order to use deadly force in self defense.

A small woman will be acquitted if she used a firearm against a single, strong, unarmed man if he is about to beat her up badly. As long as you can 'proof' without doubt that you feared about your life or major bodily harm, you are generally good to go in FL.

If you carry or own firearms for self defense I strongly suggest to buy and read the current edition of:

FLORIDA FIREARMS -- Law, Use & Ownership: SELF DEFENSE IN FLORIDA (Self Defense Chapters Only) - Kindle edition by Jon H. Gutmacher. Professional & Technical Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com. FLORIDA FIREARMS -- Law, Use & Ownership: SELF DEFENSE IN FLORIDA (Self Defense Chapters Only) - Kindle edition by Jon H. Gutmacher. Professional & Technical Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.




Keep in mind that gun laws change quite frequently. I always check for the most current version.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:20 PM   #12
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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The law goes not by the number of attackers or weapons.

The victim has to truly fear about his / her or somebody else's life or bodily harm in order to use deadly force in self defense.

A small woman will be acquitted if she used a firearm against a single, strong, unarmed man if he is about to beat her up badly. As long as you can 'proof' without doubt that you feared about your life or major bodily harm, you are generally good to go.
Right but i was under thr impression there is guidelines. For instance if trayvon and zimmermann simply got in a fist fight and zimmerman shot hed be jailed. But since he was underneath and having his head slammed on concrete it was justified.

If a woman or elderly is attacked by a single attacker its justified.

Of course its case by case but another big man attacking me with no weapons, and myself standing at 6'4 220 i couldn't really claim "fear of my life" even if I was.

Thats what sucks about duty to retreat states, unless you end up dead the jury will always think "you had another option"
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:29 PM   #13
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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Originally Posted by zzwierzyna View Post
Right but i was under thr impression there is guidelines. For instance if trayvon and zimmermann simply got in a fist fight and zimmerman shot hed be jailed. But since he was underneath and having his head slammed on concrete it was justified.

If a woman or elderly is attacked by a single attacker its justified.

Of course its case by case but another big man attacking me with no weapons, and myself standing at 6'4 220 i couldn't really claim "fear of my life" even if I was.

Thats what sucks about duty to retreat states, unless you end up dead the jury will always think "you had another option"


(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

At the end od the day this is what counts. 776.012 out of 2014 Florida Statutes.


If I truly believe that somebody is going to kill me or hurt me bad imminently - no matter gender, size or weapons - he / she will get shot. This decision is made by me, not a jury, and justified by law.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:38 PM   #14
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

"is not engaged in a criminal activity"
That could be gray area, is chasing them technically illegal? Would that be stalking or vigilante type charge? Don't have a clue.

An asshole lawyer could smell some money to rep the dirtbag.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:40 PM   #15
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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"is not engaged in a criminal activity"
That could be gray area, is chasing them technically illegal? Would that be stalking or vigilante type charge? Don't have a clue.

An asshole lawyer could smell some money to rep the dirtbag.
Didnt work for trayvon. As long as you dont enter their home there's no law against pursuing someone. Unless there is a restraining order.

Given the opportunity i would. The detectives arent going to find your shit we all know that. At least you can tell the police where to go
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:46 PM   #16
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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"is not engaged in a criminal activity"
That could be gray area, is chasing them technically illegal? Would that be stalking or vigilante type charge? Don't have a clue.

An asshole lawyer could smell some money to rep the dirtbag.

Only if its an imminent forcible felony. A simple theft is not such felony, because it misses the 'aggravated' component.

In this case the owner still has a right to follow his possessions and if faced with death or great bodily harm he is justified to use deadly force in a case of self defense, not property recovery.


776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:51 PM   #17
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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Only if its an imminent forcible felony. A simple theft is not such felony, because it misses the 'aggravated' component.

In this case the owner still has a right to follow his possessions and if faced with death or great bodily harm he is justified to use deadly force in a case of self defense, not property recovery.


776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
So if someone steals your bike at gunpoint, its unlawful to pursue?

Also i heard alot of good things about gutmacher. Havent read his stuff though yet. When i carry i have it as life or death, the grey area rhetoric wont really matter when its my life on the line. Im shooting if necessary if the state doesnt like it ill see them in court.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:59 PM   #18
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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So if someone steals your bike at gunpoint, its unlawful to pursue?
What do you mean? You can fellow anybody on public land if they had been part of a crime. LE will discourage you tho.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:02 PM   #19
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

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What do you mean? You can fellow anybody on public land if they had been part of a crime. LE will discourage you tho.
Thought so. Misread your post.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:17 PM   #20
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Re: Thief shot in Delray, hopefully dies. May not be good for shop owner.

I hope he got shot 47 times and suffers terribly for months only to die and rot in hell...
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